Photos From 2023
Tag: Jane Chardiet
Interview + Track Premier, with Peace De Résistance
Peace de Résistance is the solo recording project of Mose Brown. Best known for fronting the punk band Institute and playing drums in the hardcore outfit Glue, Brown has drifted from his roots to create “demented glam rock” for the 2020’s. Following the 2020 demo tape Hedgemakers, Brown is self-releasing the project’s first full length LP, Bits and Pieces on his very own newly minted label, Peace de Records. Today the world gets a second peek into the full length, with the release of the second single off the record, “Alphabet Au Pair”.
With heavy nods towards The Velvet Underground, “Alphabet Au Pair” is a dreamy snarl towards the “privacy iconoclast” Alexa- as in the Amazon’s voice assistant, not a typical femme muse. The albums leans into a romanced anxiety about what it means to be a modern person: surveilled, uninsured and overworked.
Listen to “Alphabet Au Pair” from the debut LP “Bits and Pieces” out April 13th on Peace De Récords below, while you check out the first ever interview about Peace de Résistance.
Mose and I sat down at his dinner table for the first ever Peace de Résistance interview over some cauliflower rice and sweet potatoes to discuss where the project comes from, how music is like scent and what his go-to bodega order is. Just in case we ever get a live show, you’ll know what to bring as a token of appreciation.
Jane Pain (JP): I did not hear anything about Peace De Résistance until the demo (Hedgemakers, Glue Records, 2020) was announced and I was an instant fan. And I am your partner’s sister and your close friend! I want to know a bit about where the project came from.
Was it a quick inspiration that blurted out in Covid isolation? What was the inception of everything?
Moses Brown (MB): The tape was me just learning to record at home. Barry (Institute, Chalk) told me how he recorded everything, which is passing through a four track that goes into the headphone jack in a computer without recording onto tape. So it gets all warm and stuff, but you don’t have to deal with recording on tape.The first demo was just me playing around with that set up. Blowing out the channel of the four track.
JP: So it was you, locked up in the attic just kinda making something to make it?
MB: Definitely wanting to shake the cobwebs and freshen up my songwriting skills and try to do something completely different. I would get a guitar tone, realize that it sounded stupid and was like… ‘Lets go with that!’. Trying to do dumb, extreme choices. I was like ‘this feels good, I like this’.
JP: So this was fun to do?
MB: So fun to do.
JP: I am glad that you found a bright spot at that time. Were you surprised by people’s response to the demo? I feel like it was kind of an internet darling and people really responded to it.
MB: Definitely, because it was recorded so badly I was like… ‘People like this’? The thing that bugs me still is the drums. The drums sound like trash, because they were recorded with one microphone. If I had recorded the drums with Sasha (Artifact Studios. Firewalker/ 80HD) or something, I would have felt different but I just felt like they were bad.
JP: And that is hard, because that is your main instrument. Did you record them in the attic here (Brown’s Bed-Stuy apartment)?
MB: Glue had a practice space, so I went in there one day during the height of lockdown. I remember going in there with gloves on and full gear and realizing that someone had been in there at 11AM… and it was 5PM and I was like “OH NO!”.
I just had one mic, recorded the drums. I used a glass bottle of Michels of Brooklyn pasta sauce. That is the “ding ding ding”.
JP: That studio situation elicits so many memories that feel so far away. When doing anything, it felt scary and naughty. When we were washing our groceries.
The LP (Bits and Pieces, Peace De Récords) doesn’t strike me as having the same spirit of ‘I am just going to record this shitty and get it out’. What changed in your attitude between the tape and deciding to do the LP? What were you setting out to do when you first started writing the LP?
MB: I guess, people liking the tape. Specifically, friends really liked the tape and gave me confidence that I could do more songs. The song quality on the demo was bugging me a little bit, and I knew I could record a bit better. Then I realized that I had ten songs, and thirty minutes of music and it was going to be an LP.
JP: Well, I am stoked on that, because I was one of those friends, and I was really hoping that there would be more.
I was really honored when you asked me to take the picture for the cover of Bits and Pieces. I got even more excited when you sent me the LP and I got to listen.
I know we were going for a timelessness, and a glam look and whatnot with the cover. Institute releases always have your art on the cover. What was behind your decision to have a photograph of yourself on the cover?
MB: I wanted to dive in real hard to the solo album thing: here is a picture of the person who made it. I wanted the record to look super classic.
JP: Why did you self release it, on top of that?
MB: I don’t even know when in the process I decided that was what I was going to do. But, I just realized… I did the tape? I could do an LP? And working with Sacred Bones and other small labels made me realize that if I am not going to play a show ever or tour or do much promotion I should do it myself. If this flops, I want the responsibility to be in my lap. I wouldn’t want to ask someone to put it out and not play any shows, not want to talk about it. I realized I can do this myself and I don’t have to bother anybody.
JP: I guess you have not gotten to the part where you are sending these records out yet, but so far, what has the process of putting out your own LP of your own music been? What have you learned along the way?
MB: It takes a long time. I gave the pressing plant everything in July and now, hopefully, the records are sent out in the next couple weeks. Fingers crossed. It cost a lot to do, about $3,000.
Being the one person talking to the record plant was a lot. They don’t have a relationship with me. I probably got sidelined as the weird dude who is just putting out one record.
JP: You mentioned you did have a little snafu with the album design as well…
MB: Yes, I misplaced the accent on Resistance and I had to fix it with a sticker.
JP: I had to personally place a sticker on all the FKA Twigs records that did not have the FKA back when I worked shipping records for the Beggar’s Group. I don’t think it is that uncommon, and thankfully a sort of easy fix.
Do you have a plan for the label? Is it a home for all of your side projects? Do you want to release music from other people?
MB: I think it will just be a vessel for this project, but I don’t know. We will see. Now that it is all on the books… How do you pay other people? Tax stuff? I don’t want to figure that out.
JP: When I think about some of the people who run labels, I have faith you can figure it out. You just mentioned that there isn’t a plan to play live, but is there any desire to do that… at all?
MB: Maybe it would be fun to play live with a band, but I would want it to be something special. Recreating the LP live wouldn’t be that much fun. I would be bothered by everything that was missing. Like ‘there isn’t that synth thing there… Where’s the cowbell?’ I need that. I would think that if I was to perform live it would be something totally different. I love the juxtaposition of recorded Velvet Underground versus the super rough bootleg live recordings…. Maybe I can do something like that.
JP: That sounds really cool and like a good development of the music, considering the spirit of it. I hope that happens!
Did it feel like a challenge playing everything by yourself, or does that just come naturally?
MB: There were definitely times with the guitar where I thought I physically couldn’t play the parts. Coming up with what I was looking for and then… Oops, I can’t play it though. That was the only hard part, really. But it was fun.
JP: Margaret (Brown’s partner, my sister, who also works on Pharmakon in said sauna studio) told me the attic that you guys use as a studio can get up to 120 degrees, with no windows, and you can’t stand in the studio in parts of the studio because the ceiling is slanted… and that your computer is a piece of shit…
Was there any romance in that? I have been in less than ideal situations trying to make or record something and for some reason the challenges seem to add character and strengthen the memory of the experience. It can also just be funny and makes a good story. Like the time my drummer had to record with a mattress leaning on his back. Did the circumstances feel like part of the process or was it just frustrating to be trapped in a sweltering attic with a computer that is breaking down?
MB: It was kinda fun. The only problem is that you have to run a loud ass fan to stay cool. Thankfully everything was direct in, so I don’t think it showed up on the recording.
JP: Were there any unlikely inspirations that worked their way into the LP?
MB: Madonna, “Ray of Light”.
JP: That is a really good song, I can’t blame you.
I am thinking about all the accents that are on the record, so it was funny learning that there was a jar of pasta sauce used on the demo. Are there any other sonic inspirations? Or reading a book? I noticed that the last song includes “Journey To The End Of The Night”, which made me wonder if it was a reference to Celine.
MB: It was definitely a nod! But the song doesn’t really have anything to do with the book. It is a morbid song, and that whole book is very morbid. And sad.
JP: Darby [one of Mose’s cats] came out, because she is waiting to be name dropped.
MB: Hi, Darby! You inspired a song.
JP: Is Institute still a band?
MB: Oh, yeah. I think that Arak and I are going to start recording things at home. Once we move and I have a new studio. Do Institute, but write by recording it at home and then going into the studio and record a new LP. That process worked so well, I realized Institute needs to be doing it.
JP: I can imagine that working well for you guys, especially being spread out in different parts of the country.
MB: Lower pressure, that is what I am all about.
JP: Is Peace De Résistance your moniker that encapsulates all your solo endeavors, and Peace de Récords the vehicle? Have you thought about that at all?
MB: No, not really. All I know is I want to do this Lp and then put out another LP of this stuff. That’s the only goal that I can see right now.
JP: Are you excited to share this record with people?
MB: Totally. Even based on the first single, I had people say that they really liked it. Well, if they like that one, they are going to like the rest of them!
JP: Having listened to the record a lot, I can attest that is true. But I like that confidence.
I know you do visual art as well… Have you been working on visual art lately?
MB: No. That was the thing. But I just made a lot of music and decided I was just going to focus on that.
JP: I almost feel like all mixed media artists had to focus in on one thing, or lean into one thing heavier.
MB: I don’t know what it was about the pandemic, but I could only pick one thing.
JP: I felt like I needed an escape, and for that reason I was more compelled to make things that helped me escape. I can see music as being more stimulating and exciting and transport you outside of your head a bit more than working on drawings.
MB: I would draw and be like… What are these drawings going to be for? There is no record? There are no flyers, there are no shows happening?
JP: This will be my first published interview since the pandemic, so it feels like I have to talk about it. Since there were no shows, what got you through the past two years, hobby wise? Did you learn how to bake bread?
MB: We {Mose and his partner} started going camping. Me and Margaret tried to learn how to surf, your Dad was teaching us how to surf. Going to the beach. It was such a chill zone.
JP: Yeah, especially the first summer, the only joy I experienced was going to the beach. I wanted to go as much as humanly possible.
But I did want to talk a bit about the lack of shows, specifically, and how the role that music plays in your life right now may differ than before the pandemic hit. We have live shows again, in spurts between infection spikes. Where does music fit into your life now? Did the pandemic factor into your decision to play things all alone?
MB: Before the pandemic, my whole world would be centered around when the next tour was, and the next place that we were going to go. I definitely miss that. Now instead of it being a means of traveling and stuff like that, it is a hobby that I get to do on Sunday. I just have to work all the time now, so what else am I supposed to do?
JP: Yeah, I guess if you are not touring all the time, you have to work your stupid job. I saw that a lot of your lyrics are about labor, actually. Do you mind speaking on that?
MB: Totally. I would sit down and wonder what I wanted to write about. A lot of the songs are about tech and tech taking advantage of humanity and making money off of people, stealing their information and stuff. We are a motor to run their system. Why can’t we get paid? We need to make more money!
The songs are definitely about the horrors of being alive and working right now. It is such a unique crazy period. And the inspiration for the lyrics were Cleaners from Venus. They are such well crafted pop songs, but they are lefty propaganda.
JP: That was something that I really liked about the record too. The contrast of these warped pop songs with Crass records style, scathing lyrics. Something political and current in a package that is a bit more unsuspecting.
MB: I think I needed to figure out a way to write about stuff. Lyrics need to be coming from you. I struggle with making a living, having health insurance, being agressively marketed to on the internet.
JP: How does being at a show feel to you right now? Do you feel like something has changed?
MB: Yeah, it is crazy to be back at shows. Touring still seems crazy to me, because I am going to inevitably get sick and then what do we do? Do we just cancel shows for five days?
JP: I guess you just hide out in a Motel 6 and sweat it out. SXSW was last week and I started to see Covid declarations on twitter today.
MB: Yeah, everyone probably got sick. That is just what happens now.
It is weird. Seeing MANAT a couple of nights ago was amazing, but at the same time I was being smooshed. I was two feet away from two dozen people. And everyone is screaming. It was freaking me out a little bit.
JP: You felt freaked out?
MB: In little glimpses. But it was too fun to worry about too much at the moment.
JP: I did get particularly smooshed at that show. I am covered in bruises, including two really bad ones in a perfect line across my legs where I was being smashed into the stage.
MB: It was good just to hear music, loud.
JP: I think everyone used to take shows for granted, because we never really thought that something like this was going to happen in our lifetimes. But going to shows now really makes me remember why I was attracted to punk and noise and live music in the first place. I feel like I have turned back into 13 year old Jane who would go to ABC NO RIO every Saturday no matter what, sober, and so fucking excited about whatever the fuck was goling on. I have that energy. Every show feels special and new again. Do shows feel special to you, after having them gone?
MB: Totally. But also, I used to stand and watch everybody. After not going to shows for two years, I realized that if I don’t want to watch something, I do not have to stand there and watch everything. I will protect my ears.
JP: Do you have any high hopes for summer? Spring is here and it feels like a really exciting time, and like we are going to step into a lot of experiences that we have been missing for years and a new chapter in our lives and music.
MB: Everyone has been cooped up, doing stuff. I just hope to come into summer and find out that all of my friends have been doing amazing shit.
JP: I have been wondering if inflation will cause another big uprising this summer. What the fuck is going on? It is happening so quickly and dramatically. It makes me wonder if we are about to hit another Great Depression even more dramatic and messed up than the first, because of how much the world has changed since then and how many more bills we have gotten accustomed to paying.
I wondered if an undercurrent of collective malcontent in our country was in the Bits and Pieces.
MB: Why is minimum wage in Texas still $7.25. Billionaires make so much more money, but workers have been making the same amount of money for fifteen years. The math doesn’t add up.
JP: And the people we exalted as our essential workers are bearing the burden of being underpaid the worst. Being told that they can’t take time off if they have active covid. Transparently evil.
On that note, what is the ideal function of music in your life? It certainly eases the pain of this reality.
MB: I don’t know. Music is just the best thing ever. It is to enjoy. It is magical. It is crazy. It is like smell or something, where the weird tone of a guitar can make you think of something.
JP: Wow, I never thought of it like that before. The way music works on the mind and how scent works with memory is really similar.
MB: When I like something a lot, it feels mysterious and nostalgic. It is channeling something, reverberating deep in some part of me. I don’t know what that is.
JP: I can think of music that will always remind me of a super specific time, burned into my memory as a feeling. No matter how many times I heard it before or after, it is associated with this one time. Do you have any musical memories like that?
MB: My Dad loved Public Image Ltd a whole bunch and I had second edition on CD. I had a CD player alarm clock. And I remember bringing it outside and skating a ramp in my front yard. Whenever I hear “No Birds” it feels like my CD player alarm clock is playing this, and I am doing an axle stall.
JP: Hell yeah. That is so sweet. For a while now, I always ask an off hand last question and I like them to be about snacks.
MB: “Fuck pirates booty….”
JP: I am going to fancy deli, do you want anything?
MB: I am going to need extra cheez-its. And ice cream, honestly. I fuck with it. I recently became obsessed with it. And, a snack to me, is a deli sandwich.
JP: Ice cream is a drug like food. Having something that is that indulgent, and cold. It is an experience. Well, let’s leave off on this: what is your favorite ice cream flavor?
MB: Chocolate fudge brownie. Gimme all the different chocolates.
All photography by Jane “Pain” Chardiet. Do not reproduce without permission.
Covid Chronicles, March – December 2020
I began a project doing social distance portraits. I would walk to my friends houses, and snap a portrait of them in or in front of their house from a safe distance. I worked on the project obsessively, and now how hundreds of photos of the New York City underground on lockdown.
This series is currently being compiled for a forthcoming zine. I estimate that there are at least one hundred different homes documented. I shot the series at every chance that I had. In the end, I think the project may have saved my life.
Posterboy 2000
Sedona, AZ
More work for Soft Skin Latex.
Restroom at the Hoover Dam
I feel obligated to mention that I did not shoot any photographs indoors/ the models without masks unless the models and myself had quarantined and gotten tested. I followed CDC guidelines to the best of my ability, shooting or not.
I am immunocompromised, and do my best to protect myself and others.
I felt that I needed to practice photography as a form of harm reduction. Like most artists, the pandemic presented limitations to my work that I thought would be impossible to navigate at first. This is a celebration of the photos I was able to take in spite of this years’ circumstances.
More on my experience will be published alongside the Social Distance portrait series.
New Zine “Soon”, T-Shirt
Good Things (UK) has released my newest zine “Soon” alongside a new T-shirt that features the cover image.
“Soon” is a collection of new photography and writing. 24 page, silkscreen cover, green riso, sewn bound, a5, edition of 50, circle cut into cover
comes packaged in silkscreened envelope
choose a paper cover colour:
red, white or yellow
Shirts are two sided, with two styles to choose from
Limited Edition Shirt; Benefitting NYC Health & Hospital Workers
Flying Saucer Press has curated and created a limited run of tee shirts from NYC artists to benefit NYC healthcare workers caring for Covid-19 patients
Click HERE to see all the shirts and support.
The Jane Pain shirt is a picture of a pile of humans at a Lumpy & The Dumpers show because I miss shows and I miss slimy puddles of smelly friend flesh.
Photos From Winter
Alexander Paul Gonzalez (Low and Slow) , after our show with Acyrlics got shut down by a bunch of cops pointing guns at us and moved two more times. He is the champ.
Free Download: Safe Word "Paralysis"
Fittingly released the first week of social distancing and PAUSE orders following the Covid-19 outbreak in the USA.
Photos From Summer
Interview with Devil Master
“Blackened Punk”. Good blackened punk, informed by raw Japanese punk and hardcore. It is precious. Rare, mysteriously and thankfully not commonly attempted. And I like it that way. It just hits me in the right spot, but notable bands of the genre don’t spring up often. I found Devil Master on Youtube (ha) as a suggestion on the good ole side bar following the release of their first demo and became instantly obsessed. I tried to do some research on the group and couldn’t figure out anything about ’em for a couple years, aside from hailing from Philadelphia. I assumed that all mystery surrounding the project was intentional. Maybe it is just one guy in his bedroom, I hypothesized.
News of “Satan Spits on Children of Light” on Relapse Records broke and their veil was lifted. It turns out they are refreshingly unpretentious crew of six, not one dude in his bedroom taking himself too seriously. I had the pleasure of speaking with Devil Master the night of their record release show in their hometown of Philly. We piled into their borrowed tour van to have a little convo and I even had the audacity to bring up “Lord of Chaos”.
Hades Apparition – rhythm guitar HA
Darkest Prince – lead guitar DP
Disembody – vocals DY
Del – drums – DL
Spirit Mirror – bass SM
Dodder – keyboards DD
Upon the bands request, a small portion of the interview has been redacted because of some sensitive material and names mentioned. This makes the interview read as though it seemingly starts out of nowhere, but I didn’t want to edit out more than was necessary just to maintain a natural interview arc. I am sure you can deal.
JANE PAIN: What is it like being a punk band that is classified as a Black Metal band. Are there any political implications to this? Have you gotten any push back from people?
HA: All of us come from a traditional punk culture, essentially, and that is where our politics lay. It gives me excitement when people like that [sic: sketchy people] don’t like us, that is exactly what I am trying to do. I want that type of person to reject what we are doing. It empowers me even more when I see some sketchy NSBM guy upset by what we are doing.
DP: Black metal thinks it owns Satanism and Satanism is staunchly anti-conservatism. Satanism is about progress and rebellion. The sketchy connotations of black metal are a confused, stupid thing that I despise. People who rep that are idiots.
I am not saying that anything that you guys do isn’t deliberate and thoughtful, or could be so easily mistaken as sketchy but it could be, which is kinda where I am going with this. I like that you guys basically do what you want, and it doesn’t fit into people’s ideas of what black metal is and you’re just like, ‘you’re right’. But there is that risk of being accidentally lumped in with something that sucks.
All of that could potentially get weirder as you guys reach larger audiences who don’t know you guys personally or know much about what you stand for and tour through parts of the country where there is a heavier NSBM scene and overt racism is more prevalent. It is so easy to forget how different things are in New York City or Philly versus Kentucky until you are there and like… FUCK.
DD: As someone who gets starred at when I go down South because I really look Jewish… That stuff doesn’t bother me, and I don’t care. We’re stronger than them, always. Those people live in a cave…
DP: As someone who sort of identifies as Pagan too, I just think it’s unfortunate that there are these misconceptions and connotations but at the end of the day you just got to make your life easy. Whether or not you want to deal with the consequences, or how you feel about it. It’s unfortunate that you were not aware…
It was so disappointing and weird to find out that a lot of noise and black metal that I loved musically was fucked up or racist. It is weird trying to figure out where you draw your own line exploring certain themes or imagery even when it is the artists intention to sort of highlight how fucked up it is. I am not making an argument defending offensive or bigoted ideas or imagery at all. Just fucked up to be interested in “dark things” and wonder where you draw the line for yourself. Like, should I stop watching serial killer documentaries? What is okay and what isn’t, for me, personally. It is just weird that there is actually evil (in a bad way) shit and then there is cool shit that is interested in the actual evil shit. It can be weird to navigate at times. And certain ascetics etc are going to elicit certain reactions from people, even if they are mistaken about ones intentions.
DY: We were in a bar last week and the bartender was playing [sic] an NSBM band.
DP: I grew up in Ireland, and there is the same situation with loyalists. It’s fucking bullshit there, fuck those people.
It is really weird because the political landscape now is so scary. The notion of conservative nationalism isn’t that abstract to Americans anymore. It is right out in the mainstream, in politics, explicitly. It is not far away seeming, anymore. But I am wondering how far will people go? How many people will cling to totally Ludacris hateful ideology and actually be able to do something about it? Things keep getting worse and worse and I take shit more and more seriously.
DP-It’s not funny to wear a Burzum hoodie anymore…
This is true. Moving away from the sketchy… I first kind of got my first noise and metal records per recommendations at Hospital Productions when it was still a storefront, and because of that the label holds a particular importance to me. Before that everything that I liked was shaped by going into Double Decker in Allentown. These places are like sacred to me and I wonder how different my tastes would be if the people behind the counter were dismissive of me or even if they themselves just liked different stuff.
Relapse was another big store for me for a little while. When I was 19 I worked at a pastry shop on the corner and would nervously go browse at Relapse and occasionally buy a black metal CD on my break sometimes. Increasingly we are losing these brick and mortar stores in general, but especially record stores and book stores and these places are so important. We are losing the opportunity to connect with people in our development of our musical taste. Everything being always available makes things like finding a new band that you love feel much less special or exciting.
How does it feel to have lost Relapse as a physical store, but still carrying on its legacy by putting out your record with them. Is it significant?
HA: Relapse was a huge hub for all of us growing up. Even just the music that they were playing at the store… I remember walking in and hearing Bathory for the first time in my life, and Electric Wizard. I wasn’t going to find that stuff on the radio or even metal magazines at that point. Hearing it was huge. Going in there and looking at records, holding the physical entity. Learning about music in person is huge. Going to shows even when you don’t know the band. You become part of the community. I think it is really important to go to shows. The internet is phenomenal, and I do not take it for granted, I have definitely learned about a lot of stuff through it, but I think it is important to have a physical and social aspect to learning about stuff, in general.
DP- Relapse was where I got my first Bathory CD when I was 14.
HA- That is why we made our album art to look the way that it does. The idea of flicking through records in person. We wanted to make something that stood out. We grew up blind buying records. I mean, I still do that. Aesthetic is so important.
DP: How our art worked out is a very surreal story too that we could not be happier with… I found Erica’s art featured for a certain apocalyptic, militant Satanist cult online and became obsessed only to find on further investigation she had done art for Philly metal and punk bands. Her and her husband moved back to Philly briefly around then and we all agreed she would be perfect, being the most intense occultist I’ve ever met, but also just an amazing artist who could grasp our vibe immediately.
It’s been weird how as time goes on; I seem to know less and less people at shows even when I am really actively going to shows. I feel like a fucking old person talking about the “back in my day” kind of stuff but… I don’t think it is as common for people to just show up at the same venue every weekend no matter who is playing, and that was kinda just what me and my friends did when I was a teenager and in my early 20’s. People are a little too cool and too informed to that now, I think.
It used to be pretty much the same people at a venue every week. Even when someone wasn’t your friend, there was a kind of cast of characters and a feeling of camaraderie. Sometimes depending on who was playing, there would be more people there. If you didn’t show up people would actually notice.
I think this goes hand in hand with the disappearance of record stores and underground venues that harbored community. There is a shift in what we value. It is more important to have totally perfect curated tastes and a matching look and the best instagram stories than to actually be a part of something. But while there is less community on one hand there is a much more expansive one on the other. No one is really alone anymore. And that is cool, especially for marginalized people. But it is harder to make connections in person now a days, I think.
DY: People now can know about everything, so they can pick and choose.
HA: Years ago, in Philly, you would see the same people at everything. It was cool because there was no division between punk and metal most of the time. Everyone went to everything. That has drawn a huge influence on us as a band. We do not pander to a specific crowd; we like the idea of having people from all different places and scenes dig our stuff. We have had people come up to us after shows and in a semi-joking manner saying that goths love our music and stuff like that. Typically, goths don’t touch metal music.
There is also something very special about Philly, at least when I lived here. There was a lot of fluidity in music scenes, a lot of queer people chilling at punk shows, a lot more house shows and general freakiness. NYC sorta broke down the barrier between punk and noise a little bit but other cities are seemingly much more divided by genre. I found LA to be especially stratified, when I was living there.
HA: Since we haven’t done a lot of West Coast stuff but just in the considering of going out there, we feel like we have to plan for that sort of stuff. We would have to do a punk show and a metal show separately.
DP:Well Black Twilight Circle are important to mention because they do bandage things between punk and metal. But they are the only ones on the West Coast who I have noticed doing that.
DY: They are the coolest circle ever.
DP: That doesn’t exist anywhere else.
DY: Before the other day (‘Sabbat’s Lair’) we mostly just played metal shows in NYC. Saint Vitus.
SM: We played Gateway…
DY: That’s true. We played with Christian Death at Brooklyn Bazar, which was really weird.
TELL ME MORE.
DY: Well Christian Death set up their drums in the middle of the stage and would not move them, so everyone had to set up a separate set of drums and set up next to them. And they didn’t talk to us the whole night.
SM: It was almost like there was this whole sick show and then they played. I mean, it was 2018.
I am pretty much done with reunion tours and stuff like that, it’s always disappointing and weird, at least for the most part.
DP: Well they never stopped playing. It’s been going for forever.
DD: I’m bummed that Youth Of Today is playing tonight in NYC… One of the only good reunion bands that I have ever seen.
DD: Them and Cocksparrer.
Yeah Cocksparrer were tight. So were the Buzzcocks.
Well this kind of goes back to the whole Relapse thing and your decision to sign with them. Being on a bigger metal label can afford you certain opportunities that you wouldn’t have otherwise. Weird, big bills. Doing stuff like for Red Bull Music Academy or having a song on a TV show or something [ they start laughing at me]. I am dead ass, these things happen. Are you guys just down for the ride to see what you can do as a band or is there a limit or certain things that you know you do not want to do?
HA: We turned down a label before Relapse approached us because of certain sketchy things that they have done, so when Relapse approached us as a Philadelphia label… It was bewildering… but we did pick up on the fact that we were all down for the ride. We have already turned down certain opportunities. We are not doing everything that is thrown at us, but we are taking full advantage and pride in what we do.
DY: I feel like most things we have been offered mesh with the general thing we got going on and that is fortunate because I think that some of those opportunities may not have come up without the connection that Relapse has.
SM: On the other side they told us that they have bands that never play live or tour. They told us that we could take it as far as we wanted and push it or just not. They are flexible.
DP: They were genuinely interested in our band because of their interest in Japanese hardcore. Also, I play live bass with Integrity so I knew that we could trust them as a label, even though Integrity all joke that we are crust punks who would rather starve… Thankfully that connection helped us be more confident in our decision.
I was wondering how that Integrity/ Devil Master show came about when I saw you guys post about it.
DP: Integrity always considered me a punk. Relapse hit them up asking about Devil Master, much to their astonishment, joking that we are like crusties who wouldn’t want to do a record with a bar code (laugh).
DY: Also, despite what some people claim, we did not get picked up because of Integrity though we are grateful for everything theyve done for us.
I was going to ask if you guys ever played a show that was so off and bunk and insane that you felt like you should not have agreed to do it but we sorta touched on that, I guess…
DP: We were going to turn down a fest because of a venue’s sound guy and such a horrible experience that we had with them, but we found out the fest is elsewhere so that changes things…
DY: So, the answer to this question, for publishing purposes, yes.
SM: Not a lot of nightmares.
I feel like the new record is really musically diverse.
DY: It is funny you should say that because so many people make comments like ‘no variety’.
HA: A lot of comments saying that, and even reviews saying that the music isn’t that diverse but it’s great.
Well, I could see a bunch of stuff going on and some strong influences. I was wondering if you guys conjure music from unexpected resources, musically or not. I know from reading about you guys that some of you practice Satanism, for instance.
DD: Bolivian folk music.
HA: Aesthetically and musically, we are all big horror movie fans.
DP: We all have our own weird niche shit. Spirituality and things that we cannot put into words but help us communicate without saying things to each other.
SM: When we are playing live, we sometimes have nights where we feel like we all meet up.
DY: We can meet on this weird astral plane.
DP: When we started this, it was a collective effort and we sort of gave birth to an almost elemental spirit. When we keep the band going, we are feeding into it. We don’t even have to think about it anymore. It’s all natural. We have our obvious influences we just have our own sound now that we are just rolling with unconsciously.
I HAVE to ask… Have you guys seen the Lord of Chaos movie.
DP: I watched It the night before tour and I expected to hate it, but it gave me a different perspective on everything.
DY: I hope it is better than I think it is going to be.
DP: It’s pretty cheesy… as hell… but interesting. And we got paraphrased by revolver in saying that I only listen to Mayhem and Lords of Chaos. Wrong time to rep that, when it’s so cheesy. Obviously Norwegian Black Metal is an influence on all of us.
DY: I have listened to Deathcrush a million times but I am not going to brag about that.
I watched it the other day. I have watched the documentary and have read the book but that was a while ago and I think I… sort of bought into their desired mythology a bit more. Watching the movie- and at least the way that they shaded everything- I sort realized how much of everything that went on were a bunch of young ass dudes in a pissing contest and the root of a lot of the things that they did was simply to get attention, like flat out. They were all trying to outdo each other and get publicity. I was sitting there like, wow, would any of these churches have been set on fire if Instagram existed when this happened?
DP: Euronymous may have just been in actual shock after he found Dead and have have been egging the stuff on. A simple psychological explanation I never thought of. You think of these people as mythic people with no human emotion.
DY: But I am pretty sure that we, along with the movie Lords Of Chaos, will be tarred as having put the final nail in the coffin of Black Metal.
I got so genuinely middle school me mad when I first saw the trailer. I was in the theatre and just like literally felt my face get hot and my heart race. When I finally watched it, I was like girl, who the fuck cares.
DP: That’s how I felt when I first heard about it.
DY: Me too.
DP: 20-year-old me would have been like… Oh my fucking god…
I have a funny memory of when that horrible Germs biopic came out. The dude who played Darby Crash was going to be at a viewing so me and a buncha West Philly punks got PISSED drunk and went to the screening with the sole purpose of heckling him because we were so incensed. We went just to hate on that guy and were screaming at him. Why were we so mad? Pretty funny though. Also pretty fun.
I guess I will end by giving Arthur a shout out for his incredible work on recording the record. My old high school buddy. We became friends in science class because he wore an Iron Maiden shirt. Now he is an utter legend.
SM: YEAH!
HA: There is a universal love for that guy. Anyone who you meet will have nothing but nice things to say about him. He is fantastic. His production is awesome. The direction he helped us take with it. The sound. It was everything we could have dreamed of.
DD: He’s the king.
DP: We were scheduled to record with him before we were approached by relapse. But everything just came so naturally.
Thank you to Darkest Prince, for his help getting everyone properly identified after the interview transcription.
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